 11/03/2009 05:40 PM
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ProInformed VP
Posts: 2947
Joined: 01/24/2008
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In an essay abortionists Lisa H. Harris talked about performing an "uncomplicated" abortion on a 23-week-old baby just before she "rushed upstairs to take overnight call on labour and delivery."
"The first patient that came in was prematurely delivering at 23-24 weeks. As her exact gestational age was in question, the neonatal intensive care unit (NICU) team resuscitated the premature newborn and brought it to the NICU. Later, along with the distraught parents, I watched the neonate on the ventilator. I thought to myself how bizarre it was that I could have legally dismembered this fetus-now-newborn if it were inside its mother's uterus - but that the same kind of violence against it now would be illegal, and unspeakable."
Any SANE parent would most definitely NOT knowingly let this ghoul touch their baby!!!
This is just one of the many, many reasons we must oppose all efforts to force health care providers to be complicit in committing abortions - to protect our right as parents and patients to have access to health care providers who are not baby killers!
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11/03/2009 07:18 PM
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nancyu Executive VP
Posts: 5975
Joined: 03/30/2008
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Originally posted by: spinwiddy
Originally posted by: ProInformed
This is just one of the many, many reasons we must oppose all efforts to force health care providers to be complicit in committing abortions - to protect our right as parents and patients to have access to health care providers who are not baby killers!
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Excuse me?
You claimed to work in the health care field.
Shouldn't you have to wear some kind of "abortion ID" - you know - so parents know that YOU chose to have an abortion? Maybe they don't want someone like you touching their children.
Shut up and eat your hay, cowface.
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All unborn children are personsAbortion is NOT LEGALRead the ConstitutionDefend the Child
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11/03/2009 07:19 PM
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nancyu Executive VP
Posts: 5975
Joined: 03/30/2008
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http://www.nrlc.org/news_and_views/Oct09/nv102109.html
Today's News & Views
October 21, 2009
Observing the Infinite Capacity for Self-Deception
Part One of Three
By Dave Andrusko
Part Two is a reprint from the Robert Powell Center for Medical Ethics. Part Three brings together three items in a brief, readable way. Please send your comments to daveandrusko@gmail.com. If you'd like, follow me at www.twitter.com/daveha
"What do you do with experiences and sensations like mine? Providers of second trimester abortions see things that most people don't. What kind of dissociative process inside us allows us to do this routinely? What normal person does this kind of work? This brings me to the issue of violence."
-- Abortionist Lisa H. Harris, "Second Trimester Abortion Provision: Breaking the Silence and Changing the Discourse."
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My e-mail box began to fill up minutes after we posted "A Long Night's Journey into Dehumanization and the Moral Incoherence of Abortion." Since we have lots to cover today in Parts Two and Three, I will try to be relatively brief. What follows is inspired by the brilliant, passionate responses of a ton of readers to the outrageous remarks of abortionist Lisa Harris.
The most frequent response was bewilderment. On second thought, I take that back. By far the most common response was to offer prayers for a woman who was able to abort a woman carrying an 18-week-old baby at the same time Harris herself was carrying a baby of the same age.
To understand fully you have to have read yesterday's edition. If you haven't, please do - and then pass it along to all your friends, pro-life and otherwise.
Harris' essay, which first appeared last year in "Reproductive Health Matters," was brought to a different (and presumably larger) audience when she recently posted on http://abortioneers.blogspot.com. I heard about it because a pro-life friend brought the essay to my attention.
I mention the blog because it recently lamented that we "antis" are "stalking our blog, taking our words out of context, twisting our work, and bringing yucky negativity our way." I took great pains not to commit any of these grievous offenses (although the latter was unavoidable) as I tried to understand how the same woman who became unglued when her unborn baby moved while she was aborting another baby could descend so far as to be proud that she subsequently had skillfully cajoled her own abortion clinic into aborting children at the edge of viability.
If such a thing were technologically possible, I am sure the e-mails I received would have been soaked with tears. I've been in the Movement since the mid-70s, and writing about abortion since the late 70s. In all that time I have never seen people so rocked back on their heels.
"Speechless," "total shock," "bewildered," "unfathomable and "heartless" were typical of the comments.
After reading them and reflecting on what they said, it dawned on me why everyone, including me, was so stunned. Think about this for a second. Harris writes that she "felt a kick - a fluttery 'thump, thump' in my own uterus. It was one of the first times I felt fetal movement. There was a leg and foot in my forceps, and a 'thump, thump' in my abdomen." Did she heartlessly brush this Dantesque moment aside? No!
"Instantly, tears were streaming from my eyes - without me - meaning my conscious brain - even being aware of what was going on. I felt as if my response had come entirely from my body, bypassing my usual cognitive processing completely. A message seemed to travel from my hand and my uterus to my tear ducts. It was an overwhelming feeling - a brutally visceral response - heartfelt and unmediated by my training or my feminist pro-choice politics. It was one of the more raw moments in my life."
So, what happens in an abortion--and to whom--was as clear as it could be for any human being. But there was more to the continuing education of Lisa H. Harris, abortionist.
Later in the essay she talks about performing an "uncomplicated" abortion on a 23-week-old baby just before she "rushed upstairs to take overnight call on labour and delivery." What did she encounter there?
The first patient that came in was prematurely delivering at 23-24 weeks. As her exact gestational age was in question, the neonatal intensive care unit (NICU) team resuscitated the premature newborn and brought it to the NICU. Later, along with the distraught parents, I watched the neonate on the ventilator. I thought to myself how bizarre it was that I could have legally dismembered this fetus-now-newborn if it were inside its mother's uterus - but that the same kind of violence against it now would be illegal, and unspeakable.
I've concluded that it was Harris' ability to ultimately blow by that combination of incredible experiences that so knocked my readers, and me, for a loop. The insanity of abortion is made clear to Harris in ways that no one could possibly miss. Yet here she is rallying abortionists to "build team cohesion" and not to forget all the "unique rewards" that killing babies well into the second trimester brings to them.
One correspondent said this shows how you cannot "dialogue with evil." I'm not sure how I feel about that.
But what I do know is that in watching Harris preen about her ability to overcome the "stigma" of killing huge unborn babies, we have been afforded an almost unparalleled opportunity to witness the human capacity for self-deception.
Please send your comments to daveandrusko@gmail.com.
-------------------------
All unborn children are personsAbortion is NOT LEGALRead the ConstitutionDefend the Child
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11/03/2009 07:40 PM
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saucie Executive Member
Posts: 871
Joined: 09/18/2009
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Originally posted by: spinwiddy
Originally posted by: ProInformed
This is just one of the many, many reasons we must oppose all efforts to force health care providers to be complicit in committing abortions - to protect our right as parents and patients to have access to health care providers who are not baby killers!
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There's no Excuse for me.
You claimed to work in the health care field.
Shouldn't you have to wear some kind of "abortion ID" - you know - so parents know that YOU chose to have an abortion? Maybe they don't want someone like you touching their children.
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A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves. - Edward R. Murrow The first liberal was satan.
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11/03/2009 09:47 PM
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Shenanigans Senior Executive
Posts: 1972
Joined: 02/05/2009
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Originally posted by: spinwiddy
Shouldn't you have to wear some kind of "abortion ID" - you know - so parents know that YOU chose to have an abortion? Maybe they don't want someone like you touching their children.
There is a difference between an individual's personal life and their professional life. Whenever I look for a doctor I make sure they don't have anything to do with abortion, I have my own long winded spiritual reasons, but generally I don't think a doctor can really be interested in life if they're happy to kill the unborn.
As it stands, I wouldn't go to a female doctor/midwife et al if I knew they had aborted.
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Cannot unsee. Know Rule 34.
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11/03/2009 10:31 PM
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churchmouse Senior Executive
Posts: 1782
Joined: 05/22/2008
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"Shut up and eat your hay, cowface. "
You are a namecalling hate groopie, I was right.
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Rom 1:18 For God's anger is being revealed from Heaven against all impiety and against the iniquity of men who through iniquity suppress the truth. God is angry."
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11/03/2009 10:42 PM
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saucie Executive Member
Posts: 871
Joined: 09/18/2009
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Originally posted by: churchmouse
"Shut up and eat your hay, cowface. "
You are a namecalling hate groopie, I was right.
Newsflash...nobody cares what "hate group" you put people in while belonging to your own name calling group.
The hypocrisy is getting rather sickening.
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A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves. - Edward R. Murrow The first liberal was satan.
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11/04/2009 01:07 AM
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Shenanigans Senior Executive
Posts: 1972
Joined: 02/05/2009
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Originally posted by: saucie
Originally posted by: churchmouse
"Shut up and eat your hay, cowface. "
You are a namecalling hate groopie, I was right.
Newsflash...nobody cares what "hate group" you put people in while belonging to your own name calling group.
The hypocrisy is getting rather sickening.
I just saw on the news a cow got free from a stock truck and ran into a school yard. The cops showed up. Apparently the cow "went down in a hail of bullets".
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Cannot unsee. Know Rule 34.
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11/04/2009 10:01 PM
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churchmouse Senior Executive
Posts: 1782
Joined: 05/22/2008
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"Newsflash...nobody cares what "hate group" you put people in while belonging to your own name calling group. The hypocrisy is getting rather sickening. "
No one has to really place anyone in a group for anyone else, all one needs to do is to read the hateful posts on here......they can see for themselves who the haters are. You know those that call people names...........then turning around and pretending to follow God.
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Rom 1:18 For God's anger is being revealed from Heaven against all impiety and against the iniquity of men who through iniquity suppress the truth. God is angry."
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11/05/2009 08:43 AM
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saucie Executive Member
Posts: 871
Joined: 09/18/2009
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Originally posted by: churchmouse
"Newsflash...nobody cares what "hate group" you put people in while belonging to your own name calling group. The hypocrisy is getting rather sickening. "
No one has to really place anyone in a group for anyone else, all one needs to do is to read the hateful posts on here......they can see for themselves who the haters are. You know those that call people names...........then turning around and pretending to follow God.
You realize you're holding a mirror when you say that, right?
If not....this may be the best example of the log in the eye I've ever seen.
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A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves. - Edward R. Murrow The first liberal was satan.
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11/07/2009 09:23 AM
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churchmouse Senior Executive
Posts: 1782
Joined: 05/22/2008
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"You realize you're holding a mirror when you say that, right?
Who have I called names and demean?
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Rom 1:18 For God's anger is being revealed from Heaven against all impiety and against the iniquity of men who through iniquity suppress the truth. God is angry."
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11/07/2009 09:28 AM
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saucie Executive Member
Posts: 871
Joined: 09/18/2009
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Originally posted by: churchmouse
"You realize you're holding a mirror when you say that, right?
Who have I called names and demean?
Calling someone a "hater" is calling someone a name.....placing people in "hate groups" is demaning them.
There, I've spelled it out...you need to go back and re-read your beam/mote in the eye posts of late.
Your own "hatred" of what YOU deem mis-behavior is evident and comes acorss very clearly. But, just remember, when you're pointing a finger at someone, there's four others pointing back.
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A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves. - Edward R. Murrow The first liberal was satan.
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11/07/2009 02:28 PM
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churchmouse Senior Executive
Posts: 1782
Joined: 05/22/2008
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"Calling someone a "hater" is calling someone a name.....placing people in "hate groups" is demaning them. There, I've spelled it out...you need to go back and re-read your beam/mote in the eye posts of late. Your own "hatred" of what YOU deem mis-behavior is evident and comes acorss very clearly. But, just remember, when you're pointing a finger at someone, there's four others pointing back."
I use hate group as a general term for people who do what I am talking about. It is not what I mean by namecalling and you know it. It is not hard to see on this board who loves to hate.
I hate no one on this board. And because I point out hateful comments made by people who are not following Christ that does not mean I hate them. I feel sorry for them.
We have a right to judge actions. And namecalling and using language like some do on here is hateful. But then you knew that didnt you?
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Rom 1:18 For God's anger is being revealed from Heaven against all impiety and against the iniquity of men who through iniquity suppress the truth. God is angry."
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11/07/2009 03:46 PM
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nancyu Executive VP
Posts: 5975
Joined: 03/30/2008
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Originally posted by: nancyu
http://www.nrlc.org/news_and_views/Oct09/nv102109.html
Today's News & Views
October 21, 2009
Observing the Infinite Capacity for Self-Deception
Part One of Three
By Dave Andrusko
Part Two is a reprint from the Robert Powell Center for Medical Ethics. Part Three brings together three items in a brief, readable way. Please send your comments to daveandrusko@gmail.com. If you'd like, follow me at www.twitter.com/daveha
"What do you do with experiences and sensations like mine? Providers of second trimester abortions see things that most people don't. What kind of dissociative process inside us allows us to do this routinely? What normal person does this kind of work? This brings me to the issue of violence."
-- Abortionist Lisa H. Harris, "Second Trimester Abortion Provision: Breaking the Silence and Changing the Discourse."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
My e-mail box began to fill up minutes after we posted "A Long Night's Journey into Dehumanization and the Moral Incoherence of Abortion." Since we have lots to cover today in Parts Two and Three, I will try to be relatively brief. What follows is inspired by the brilliant, passionate responses of a ton of readers to the outrageous remarks of abortionist Lisa Harris.
The most frequent response was bewilderment. On second thought, I take that back. By far the most common response was to offer prayers for a woman who was able to abort a woman carrying an 18-week-old baby at the same time Harris herself was carrying a baby of the same age.
To understand fully you have to have read yesterday's edition. If you haven't, please do - and then pass it along to all your friends, pro-life and otherwise.
Harris' essay, which first appeared last year in "Reproductive Health Matters," was brought to a different (and presumably larger) audience when she recently posted on http://abortioneers.blogspot.com. I heard about it because a pro-life friend brought the essay to my attention.
I mention the blog because it recently lamented that we "antis" are "stalking our blog, taking our words out of context, twisting our work, and bringing yucky negativity our way." I took great pains not to commit any of these grievous offenses (although the latter was unavoidable) as I tried to understand how the same woman who became unglued when her unborn baby moved while she was aborting another baby could descend so far as to be proud that she subsequently had skillfully cajoled her own abortion clinic into aborting children at the edge of viability.
If such a thing were technologically possible, I am sure the e-mails I received would have been soaked with tears. I've been in the Movement since the mid-70s, and writing about abortion since the late 70s. In all that time I have never seen people so rocked back on their heels.
"Speechless," "total shock," "bewildered," "unfathomable and "heartless" were typical of the comments.
After reading them and reflecting on what they said, it dawned on me why everyone, including me, was so stunned. Think about this for a second. Harris writes that she "felt a kick - a fluttery 'thump, thump' in my own uterus. It was one of the first times I felt fetal movement. There was a leg and foot in my forceps, and a 'thump, thump' in my abdomen." Did she heartlessly brush this Dantesque moment aside? No!
"Instantly, tears were streaming from my eyes - without me - meaning my conscious brain - even being aware of what was going on. I felt as if my response had come entirely from my body, bypassing my usual cognitive processing completely. A message seemed to travel from my hand and my uterus to my tear ducts. It was an overwhelming feeling - a brutally visceral response - heartfelt and unmediated by my training or my feminist pro-choice politics. It was one of the more raw moments in my life."
So, what happens in an abortion--and to whom--was as clear as it could be for any human being. But there was more to the continuing education of Lisa H. Harris, abortionist.
Later in the essay she talks about performing an "uncomplicated" abortion on a 23-week-old baby just before she "rushed upstairs to take overnight call on labour and delivery." What did she encounter there?
The first patient that came in was prematurely delivering at 23-24 weeks. As her exact gestational age was in question, the neonatal intensive care unit (NICU) team resuscitated the premature newborn and brought it to the NICU. Later, along with the distraught parents, I watched the neonate on the ventilator. I thought to myself how bizarre it was that I could have legally dismembered this fetus-now-newborn if it were inside its mother's uterus - but that the same kind of violence against it now would be illegal, and unspeakable.
I've concluded that it was Harris' ability to ultimately blow by that combination of incredible experiences that so knocked my readers, and me, for a loop. The insanity of abortion is made clear to Harris in ways that no one could possibly miss. Yet here she is rallying abortionists to "build team cohesion" and not to forget all the "unique rewards" that killing babies well into the second trimester brings to them.
One correspondent said this shows how you cannot "dialogue with evil." I'm not sure how I feel about that.
But what I do know is that in watching Harris preen about her ability to overcome the "stigma" of killing huge unborn babies, we have been afforded an almost unparalleled opportunity to witness the human capacity for self-deception.
Please send your comments to daveandrusko@gmail.com.
That was your conscience trying to talk to you. When are you going to start listening to it, instead of to the feminazi voices that are controlling your brain.
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All unborn children are personsAbortion is NOT LEGALRead the ConstitutionDefend the Child
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11/07/2009 03:47 PM
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nancyu Executive VP
Posts: 5975
Joined: 03/30/2008
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Originally posted by: churchmouse
"Calling someone a "hater" is calling someone a name.....placing people in "hate groups" is demaning them. There, I've spelled it out...you need to go back and re-read your beam/mote in the eye posts of late. Your own "hatred" of what YOU deem mis-behavior is evident and comes acorss very clearly. But, just remember, when you're pointing a finger at someone, there's four others pointing back."
I use hate group as a general term for people who do what I am talking about. It is not what I mean by namecalling and you know it. It is not hard to see on this board who loves to hate.
I hate no one on this board. And because I point out hateful comments made by people who are not following Christ that does not mean I hate them. I feel sorry for them.
We have a right to judge actions. And namecalling and using language like some do on here is hateful. But then you knew that didnt you?
Churchmouse, a suggestion: Please refer to specific posts when you are pointing out the "hate" okay? You are making mountains out of molehills. Perhaps intentionally so?
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All unborn children are personsAbortion is NOT LEGALRead the ConstitutionDefend the Child
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11/10/2009 10:22 AM
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churchmouse Senior Executive
Posts: 1782
Joined: 05/22/2008
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"Churchmouse, a suggestion: Please refer to specific posts when you are pointing out the "hate" okay? You are making mountains out of molehills. Perhaps intentionally so?"
No, I dont think so. Hatred is never a molehill nancy.
And if I posted every hateful post you or faithman made, I would be here forever.
I'll go back the two years I have been here and pull it all out.
haha
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Rom 1:18 For God's anger is being revealed from Heaven against all impiety and against the iniquity of men who through iniquity suppress the truth. God is angry."
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11/13/2009 03:28 PM
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churchmouse Senior Executive
Posts: 1782
Joined: 05/22/2008
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And nancy said....................
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Rom 1:18 For God's anger is being revealed from Heaven against all impiety and against the iniquity of men who through iniquity suppress the truth. God is angry."
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11/13/2009 05:37 PM
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B0zo Member
Posts: 84
Joined: 10/23/2009
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Originally posted by: saucie
Originally posted by: churchmouse
"You realize you're holding a mirror when you say that, right?
Who have I called names and demean?
Calling someone a "hater" is calling someone a name.....placing people in "hate groups" is demaning them.
There, I've spelled it out...you need to go back and re-read your beam/mote in the eye posts of late.
Your own "hatred" of what YOU deem mis-behavior is evident and comes acorss very clearly. But, just remember, when you're pointing a finger at someone, there's four others pointing back.
What would be the best way, then, to convey to you that you're hateful, mean, and never say anything of any substance?
What would be the most charitible way to share this truth with you?
Do you want everyone to grab their ankles for you and your friend? Is defense the same as offense?
If you can make a case that calling someone a "scanc" and a "whore" over and over and publicly degrading someone is a way to protect and save the unborn, I promise that I will listen to your arguments and reasoning.
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11/14/2009 06:05 AM
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nancyu Executive VP
Posts: 5975
Joined: 03/30/2008
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Originally posted by: churchmouse
And nancy said....................
Just as I thought. Too much work to find it eh? If you're going to accuse someone, you are supposed to show evidence.
That way the accused is able to respond and apply a defense.
If it is too much work to find evidence - kindly keep away from the keyboard --in other words -- shut up.
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All unborn children are personsAbortion is NOT LEGALRead the ConstitutionDefend the Child
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11/14/2009 06:09 AM
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nancyu Executive VP
Posts: 5975
Joined: 03/30/2008
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Originally posted by: B0zo
Originally posted by: saucie
Originally posted by: churchmouse
"You realize you're holding a mirror when you say that, right?
Who have I called names and demean?
Calling someone a "hater" is calling someone a name.....placing people in "hate groups" is demaning them.
There, I've spelled it out...you need to go back and re-read your beam/mote in the eye posts of late.
Your own "hatred" of what YOU deem mis-behavior is evident and comes acorss very clearly. But, just remember, when you're pointing a finger at someone, there's four others pointing back.
What would be the best way, then, to convey to you that you're hateful, mean, and never say anything of any substance?
What would be the most charitible way to share this truth with you?
Do you want everyone to grab their ankles for you and your friend? Is defense the same as offense?
If you can make a case that calling someone a "scanc" and a "whore" over and over and publicly degrading someone is a way to protect and save the unborn, I promise that I will listen to your arguments and reasoning.
BoZo. What is the point of continually accusing someone - of continually accusing others - of being "scancs" and "whores". If someone does that -- respond to the specific post.
If we were to do a search for those words yours would be the name most often found beside them.
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All unborn children are personsAbortion is NOT LEGALRead the ConstitutionDefend the Child
Edited: 11/14/2009 at 06:09 AM by nancyu
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